Hello everybody,
This week’s podcast episode is a brilliant double date, with Tanya and I joined by Jennifer Cox and Salima Saxton, aka the founders of the feminist mental health platform, Women Are Mad (and
here on Substack).Jen and Salima have been best friends since they met at Cambridge University, bonding over both being state school kids who didn’t quite fit. Today, Jen is a Kleinian psychotherapist and Salima is a relationship dynamics coach, and together, through the Women Are Mad (WAM) platform they are on a mission to make feelings fashionable.
They say: “WAM is on a mission to help women recognise, articulate and communicate the best toolkit they have: their emotions.” (womenaremad.org)
This is a feisty and fabulous conversation featuring two friends with very different book shelves and reading histories, but a mutual love of stories and words as healing tools.
Psychotherapist Jen is also the author of ‘the best self-help book of 2024’ (The Times/The Sunday Times), Women are Angry 👏👏👏 (are we sensing a theme here?!), and it was great to talk bibliotherapy with a real life therapist.
Interestingly, for a bookish podcast, there is quite a lot of chat about not reading, and swapping around our reading habits for other things as our mental and emotional health requires it.
Both women are dealing with pretty raw nervous systems right now; Jen after birthing her book baby, and Salima currently grieving the death of a father with whom she had a sad and complicated relationship.
“Books and humour are helping me process the disaster that was my dad.”
Salima Saxton
And the big takeaway from this conversation for me is that life IS complicated.
And sometimes hard. And heartbreaking. But also gorgeous. And hilarious.
And that the right books at the right time can absolutely help with all of it, but that we also need to know how to read ourselves.
IN THIS EPISODE:
The profound role stories play in healing - how we can learn so much about ourselves AND find comfort in other people’s journeys.
The connection between words and emotions, and the unfurling of self-discovery through literature.
The importance of finding humour in the imperfections of family life.
Why we're angrier than we think and how to let it out (death to the ‘good girl’ archetype!).
How all genres of books can have healing properties from Jilly Cooper to Margaret Atwood.
Why we should all stop using the word ‘but’.
The importance of sitting with feelings and learning to process them, whether through retreats, journaling, or personal reflection.
SHOW NOTES:
In this episode Jen and Salima reference a super eclectic mix of books and writers, from Sigmund Freud to William Shakespeare.
Ready your Wish List… !
A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett
The Penelopiad by Margaret Atwood
Happy Go Lucky by David Sedaris
I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy
The White Hotel by D M Thomas
Love Me! by Marianne Power
Dream Story by Arthur Schnitzler
Women are Angry by Jennifer Cox
Anne of Greengables by Lucy Maud Montgomery
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
I can’t wait for you to listen.
Please share with the people you love, let me know what you think, and - of course - what you are reading right now…
Toni (& Tanya)
💛
PS: Next up - our 10th and final episode of this season featuring best-selling author and Substack queen,
.PPS: Should there be a next season? Tan and I think so. But would you listen? And who would you like us to interview? And - most important - do we need our own jingle yet?!
WATCH THE PODCAST
NB while the audio version of the podcast has been polished a bit, we’re definitely not video editors and so the video of the interview is the unedited, unfiltered real thing showcasing the reality of various wifi connections from various (often rural) locations + overexcited book nerds interviewing at least one amazing expert. There may be a couple of bloopers/sneezes/dog barking situations. But there’s something kinda lovely about the real-ness, and it’s a perfect example (I think) of “done is better than perfect.”
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